Comments on: Putting the OS in ROM http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom scratched tallies on the prison wall Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:59:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Jazz http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-89716 Jazz Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:24:09 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-89716 FYI, LinuxBIOS currently has X-windows support. LinuxBIOS with X11 server, completely in Flash ROM Wed, 2007-03-07 05:10 -- Uwe Hermann http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/linuxbios-with-x11-server-completely-in-flash-rom You can also found a demo clip at http://youtube.com/watch?v=nuzRsXKm_NQ FYI, LinuxBIOS currently has X-windows support.

LinuxBIOS with X11 server, completely in Flash ROM
Wed, 2007-03-07 05:10 — Uwe Hermann
http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/linuxbios-with-x11-server-completely-in-flash-rom

You can also found a demo clip at http://youtube.com/watch?v=nuzRsXKm_NQ

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-14414 Anonymous Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:16:43 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-14414 uclinux is effectively just a cut down linux - and it fits (as a compressed image) in 2M of flash - see cdatas cf computer. Also remember that TOS/GEM booted from ROM, and later it integrated with Unix (as MINT). The trick is to also have a ROMfs that holds essential utilities too. The reason why we need HD as well as flash is that something like swap can write to 'disc' thousands of times a second - and that will kill your flash! uclinux is effectively just a cut down linux - and it fits (as a compressed image) in 2M of flash - see cdatas cf computer.
Also remember that TOS/GEM booted from ROM, and later it integrated with Unix (as MINT). The trick is to also have a ROMfs that holds essential utilities too.
The reason why we need HD as well as flash is that something like swap can write to ‘disc’ thousands of times a second - and that will kill your flash!

]]> By: Overdose http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13308 Overdose Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:48:15 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13308 There are Flash IDE drives available, which could kinda work this way. However, RiscOS is more than just a kernel, and all the software available for Linux covering these things gets bigger and more resource hungry every day, especially if you want to use all the fancy stuff like Gnome/KDE and so on. Anyway, cut down systems can work pretty well with such a config, not to talk about specific embedded GUI systems like Qtopia (= QT/Embedded) to allow still for some gfx display if that is necessary. However, I doubt you will be able to get all that what RiscOS offers (more or less) into about the same space using Linux. Anyway, RiscOS boxes take a bit for booting as well, no real RiscOS user runs it 'mint'. There are Flash IDE drives available, which could kinda work this way. However, RiscOS is more than just a kernel, and all the software available for Linux covering these things gets bigger and more resource hungry every day, especially if you want to use all the fancy stuff like Gnome/KDE and so on.

Anyway, cut down systems can work pretty well with such a config, not to talk about specific embedded GUI systems like Qtopia (= QT/Embedded) to allow still for some gfx display if that is necessary.

However, I doubt you will be able to get all that what RiscOS offers (more or less) into about the same space using Linux. Anyway, RiscOS boxes take a bit for booting as well, no real RiscOS user runs it ‘mint’.

]]> By: Mike Hearn http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13186 Mike Hearn Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:45:20 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13186 It is also fast because it doesn't have to do any hardware probing I'd imagine: it knows ahead of time what the configuration will be. And yeah don't expcct many features - it's easy to be fast when you're little :) It is also fast because it doesn’t have to do any hardware probing I’d imagine: it knows ahead of time what the configuration will be. And yeah don’t expcct many features - it’s easy to be fast when you’re little :)

]]> By: Robin http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13147 Robin Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:49:10 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13147 So really what we're thinking is that the reason RiscOS is fast to boot is because it's entire OS and windowing system is less than 4meg? So really what we’re thinking is that the reason RiscOS is fast to boot is because it’s entire OS and windowing system is less than 4meg?

]]> By: Apantomimehorse http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13120 Apantomimehorse Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:03:30 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13120 Is flash memory really that much faster than HD. If this is the case, why not use flash for virtual memory? I understand there's a limited number of reads/writes, but as I understadn it, the limitation is not much worse than with HD's anymore. Is flash memory really that much faster than HD. If this is the case, why not use flash for virtual memory? I understand there’s a limited number of reads/writes, but as I understadn it, the limitation is not much worse than with HD’s anymore.

]]> By: Paul Nolan http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13105 Paul Nolan Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:28:50 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13105 How much space would it take (RISC OS managed in pretty low amounts - 512k for RO2, 2M for RO3 & 4M for RO4 - don´t know about RO5). Maybe if a lot of cruft was cut out this would be possible (even if it was just the kernel & busybox) How much space would it take (RISC OS managed in pretty low amounts - 512k for RO2, 2M for RO3 & 4M for RO4 - don´t know about RO5). Maybe if a lot of cruft was cut out this would be possible (even if it was just the kernel & busybox)

]]> By: Rich http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13090 Rich Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:59:05 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13090 I'd agree with Robin on LinuxBIOS. That puts your kernel directly into ROM for booting. Then you just have your system image on a CompactFlash drive or USB stick. That is a system image on flash. People boot off of USB sticks more often than you'd think. If you really must have it be ROM, burn your system image to a ROM and replace the chip in your USB drive :). I’d agree with Robin on LinuxBIOS. That puts your kernel directly into ROM for booting. Then you just have your system image on a CompactFlash drive or USB stick. That is a system image on flash. People boot off of USB sticks more often than you’d think.

If you really must have it be ROM, burn your system image to a ROM and replace the chip in your USB drive :).

]]> By: Robin http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13081 Robin Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:13:26 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13081 Well, it replaces the normal BIOS with a Linux kernel, but yeah after digging more it's not a patch on RiscOS :) The trouble I suppose is fitting in a shell + drivers etc into the limited space on the chip. For that we'd need bigger flash chips, but surely that shouldn't be a problem these days? Well, it replaces the normal BIOS with a Linux kernel, but yeah after digging more it’s not a patch on RiscOS :) The trouble I suppose is fitting in a shell + drivers etc into the limited space on the chip. For that we’d need bigger flash chips, but surely that shouldn’t be a problem these days?

]]> By: sil http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13077 sil Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:20:26 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/07/18/putting-the-os-in-rom#comment-13077 Robin: that's just a BIOS, though, isn't it? What I'm talking about is (at maximum) putting everything that runs right up until I get a gdm login window into ROM. Robin: that’s just a BIOS, though, isn’t it? What I’m talking about is (at maximum) putting everything that runs right up until I get a gdm login window into ROM.

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