Comments on: Retaining the congregation http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation scratched tallies on the prison wall Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:41:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: dramaQueen http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1841 dramaQueen Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1841 Wow, all that over one little statement.<br /> What a loser. Wow, all that over one little statement.
What a loser.

]]> By: sil http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1842 sil Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1842 I'm touched by your concern. I’m touched by your concern.

]]> By: Tom http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1843 Tom Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1843 To a believer, and especially to a priest, the matter of whether those around you are also believers <em>should</em> be an extremely serious and even urgent matter- of life and death if you like- if it means the difference between salvation or not. This is why I think you have to be at least slightly tolerant of evangelicals, God squads and so forth: they're trying to save you. The trouble is that although we have secular marriage (essentially a <a href="http://www.lyricstime.com/lyrics/11136.html ">legal matter</a> anyway), and there are now baby naming ceremonies making an appearance, there are no secular  funerals where we can mourn a loved one without acknowledging a (usually) Christian God. To a believer, and especially to a priest, the matter of whether those around you are also believers should be an extremely serious and even urgent matter- of life and death if you like- if it means the difference between salvation or not. This is why I think you have to be at least slightly tolerant of evangelicals, God squads and so forth: they’re trying to save you. The trouble is that although we have secular marriage (essentially a legal matter anyway), and there are now baby naming ceremonies making an appearance, there are no secular  funerals where we can mourn a loved one without acknowledging a (usually) Christian God.

]]> By: Matthew Revell http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1844 Matthew Revell Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1844 In reply to Tom, there are plenty of opportunities for secular funerals, particularly if you opt for a cremation, as you have a ready made venue. In reply to Tom, there are plenty of opportunities for secular funerals, particularly if you opt for a cremation, as you have a ready made venue.

]]> By: sil http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1845 sil Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1845 Tom: I concur, hence my rethink. On the flipside, though, as I said, there's a very, very fine line to walk before you cheapen the ceremony you're there to provide in order to, essentially, berate those non-believers in the congregation.<br /> Matt: crematoria are pretty, um, grim, though. In much the same way as a lot of people choose church rather than a register office for a wedding because churches are <em>nice</em>, the almost offensively non-demoninational "chapels" in crematoria seem to me to be an appalling place for your final goodbyes to be spoken. The wedding business has got around this by allowing solemnisation of marriages in secular premises, like hotels, which can be both pretty and non-religious, but the funeral business has no such luxury. Tom: I concur, hence my rethink. On the flipside, though, as I said, there’s a very, very fine line to walk before you cheapen the ceremony you’re there to provide in order to, essentially, berate those non-believers in the congregation.
Matt: crematoria are pretty, um, grim, though. In much the same way as a lot of people choose church rather than a register office for a wedding because churches are nice, the almost offensively non-demoninational “chapels” in crematoria seem to me to be an appalling place for your final goodbyes to be spoken. The wedding business has got around this by allowing solemnisation of marriages in secular premises, like hotels, which can be both pretty and non-religious, but the funeral business has no such luxury.

]]> By: sparkes http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1846 sparkes Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1846 My partner and I really struggled when deciding if our son should be 'christened'.  After a brief discussion on naming ceremonies, and remembering a really bad wiccan wedding I attended, we decided to go ahead and find a church to do a christian 'christening'.<br /> <br /> The churches that did us both turned us down blank.  Which is strange because I went to Scouts at one and Jennie was a guide at the other so we had closer ties to these churches than any.  Our local church said they would send valued members of the community to discuss faith with us and then didn't turn up.<br /> <br /> In the end we went to a strange mix of a church run independantly by the congregation.  The service was run in conjuntion with another couple of christenings and contained a good mix of tradional church service and gospel singing.<br /> <br /> At the point where each of our chosen 'god' parents where asked to promise to bring up Thomas in the faith I thought we would be struck down.  We had chosen an Anarchist, an Atheist and a Communist ;-)  I believe these people represent a good mix that would educate our child but I am not too sure others in the contrgation that day would agree ;-)<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.wibsite.com/wibblethorpe/cow503.htm">A  our next song</a> will lighten the mood before I start on why funerals are depressing.<br /> <br /> I've never attended a funeral that made me happy.  Wakes on the other hand can be fun and allow you to remember the personality of the departed.  My father has picked Jerusalem and Swing Low Sweet Chariot for his funeral because he wants us all to be happy (and presumably patriotic) at the funeral.  Unfortunatly the funeral is normally pretty much dominated by a person (the minister) that had little (or no) contact with the departed in life.  If only we where stronger perhaps we would have more family and friends involved in the service and the this aspect of death wouldn't offend us quite as much.<br /> <br /> When I go you can tell the gorilla joke to everyone sil ;-) loudly, and pissed so everyone can remember me laughing along.<br /> <br /> dramaQueen, you really are. My partner and I really struggled when deciding if our son should be ‘christened’.  After a brief discussion on naming ceremonies, and remembering a really bad wiccan wedding I attended, we decided to go ahead and find a church to do a christian ‘christening’.

The churches that did us both turned us down blank.  Which is strange because I went to Scouts at one and Jennie was a guide at the other so we had closer ties to these churches than any.  Our local church said they would send valued members of the community to discuss faith with us and then didn’t turn up.

In the end we went to a strange mix of a church run independantly by the congregation.  The service was run in conjuntion with another couple of christenings and contained a good mix of tradional church service and gospel singing.

At the point where each of our chosen ‘god’ parents where asked to promise to bring up Thomas in the faith I thought we would be struck down.  We had chosen an Anarchist, an Atheist and a Communist ;-)  I believe these people represent a good mix that would educate our child but I am not too sure others in the contrgation that day would agree ;-)

A  our next song will lighten the mood before I start on why funerals are depressing.

I’ve never attended a funeral that made me happy.  Wakes on the other hand can be fun and allow you to remember the personality of the departed.  My father has picked Jerusalem and Swing Low Sweet Chariot for his funeral because he wants us all to be happy (and presumably patriotic) at the funeral.  Unfortunatly the funeral is normally pretty much dominated by a person (the minister) that had little (or no) contact with the departed in life.  If only we where stronger perhaps we would have more family and friends involved in the service and the this aspect of death wouldn’t offend us quite as much.

When I go you can tell the gorilla joke to everyone sil ;-) loudly, and pissed so everyone can remember me laughing along.

dramaQueen, you really are.

]]> By: Matthew Revell http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1847 Matthew Revell Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1847 I see what you're saying, sil, but I think funerals in Churches are best avoided. You're vulnerable and inevitably thinking about the afterlife. However good their intentions, the believers have you there, captive and more suggestable than you might otherwise be.<br /> <br /> In order, I'd like my body to:<br /> <br /> 1) Have spare bits given to people who need them<br /> 2) Have anything left over go to medical students<br /> 3) Have the rest put in a cardboard coffin and burnt.<br /> <br /> If people choose to put a ceremony around the process, fair enough.<br /> <br /> As for christenings: what do you see as the advantage, Sparkes? I see what you’re saying, sil, but I think funerals in Churches are best avoided. You’re vulnerable and inevitably thinking about the afterlife. However good their intentions, the believers have you there, captive and more suggestable than you might otherwise be.

In order, I’d like my body to:

1) Have spare bits given to people who need them
2) Have anything left over go to medical students
3) Have the rest put in a cardboard coffin and burnt.

If people choose to put a ceremony around the process, fair enough.

As for christenings: what do you see as the advantage, Sparkes?

]]> By: sparkes http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/02/11/congregation#comment-1848 sparkes Thu, 01 Jan 1970 01:00:00 +0000 http://www.kryogenix.org/adpb/2004/02/11/congregation/#comment-1848 the christening was a naming cerimony where we introduced the little one to everyone at once and had a piss up.<br /> <br /> The christian part of it, 'christening', was just cover for our pretty pagan ways ;-)<br /> <br /> We wanted the get together and the whole nominated seconds thing (god parents) and the easiest way of doing that was in a church.  <br /> <br /> Neither of us are christians and none of the 'god' parents we picked where either. the christening was a naming cerimony where we introduced the little one to everyone at once and had a piss up.

The christian part of it, ‘christening’, was just cover for our pretty pagan ways ;-)

We wanted the get together and the whole nominated seconds thing (god parents) and the easiest way of doing that was in a church. 

Neither of us are christians and none of the ‘god’ parents we picked where either.

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